Edmunds Answers

Voted Best Answer

  • avatar Stever@Edmunds 03/18/11 9:41 am PST

    The invoice prices on our site always match the price listed in a booklet prepared by the vehicle manufacturer and distributed to its dealers commonly known as the "dealer order guide".

    I'm assuming by your member name that you are in Idaho and not in the Southeast or the Gulf states (the dealers down there impose an additional administration and destination fee which raises Toyota's national price by ~$1,000).

    An easy way to check is to look at invoice prices at Kelley or NADA. They should match our number (some sites may or may not include destination in the invoice price, so you may have to add in the difference of $810, which is the current Toyota destination fee).

    Everyone pays destination so your invoice number typically will include that. So for a Sienna Limited with Convenience and Navigation, the invoice should be $39,773. ($36,863 base plus $748 Convenience and $1,352 Navigation, and the $810 destination).

    Please report back and let us know what the dealer's explanation for the extra $867 is.

    Source: 

Answers

  • Stever@Edmunds 03/18/11 9:41 am PST

    The invoice prices on our site always match the price listed in a booklet prepared by the vehicle manufacturer and distributed to its dealers commonly known as the "dealer order guide".

    I'm assuming by your member name that you are in Idaho and not in the Southeast or the Gulf states (the dealers down there impose an additional administration and destination fee which raises Toyota's national price by ~$1,000).

    An easy way to check is to look at invoice prices at Kelley or NADA. They should match our number (some sites may or may not include destination in the invoice price, so you may have to add in the difference of $810, which is the current Toyota destination fee).

    Everyone pays destination so your invoice number typically will include that. So for a Sienna Limited with Convenience and Navigation, the invoice should be $39,773. ($36,863 base plus $748 Convenience and $1,352 Navigation, and the $810 destination).

    Please report back and let us know what the dealer's explanation for the extra $867 is.

    Source: 

  • knowledgepower 03/18/11 11:20 am PST

    This is probably not a dealer scam, just ask them to intemize the invoice price. Yes there is a book circulated to dealers but it is always a difference in the actual invoice when ordering a vehicle. When ordering vehicles I only used the book to reference a particular convenience package or group. Please understand that vehicles are ordered online with computer software that is updated. There can also be an invoice increase from the manufacturer after the book is printed, it is only a guide.

  • Stever@Edmunds 03/18/11 11:49 am PST

    Edmunds' numbers aren't static and I'm sure that Kelley and NADA update their guides frequently too. There's no reason why you should pay more for an ordered car than one on the lot - the invoice prices should be the same.

    If anything you should be negotiating from invoice minus holdback, since the dealer has a sure sale and won't have to floorplan the vehicle long.

    In view of Knowledgepower's comments (and he's in the business), I suggest you contact Edmunds and see if the Sienna invoice pricing here is current and up to date (I'm off-site and can't walk down the hall and ask).

    Contact Us.

  • knowledgepower 03/18/11 1:23 pm PST

    I do agree with steve trying to get a deal minus holdback because dealers will get supplemental floor plan for having the vehicle on the lot less than two weeks. By all means do everything to get the absolute best price on an ordered vehicle, it may not make a bunch of money but it's one more added to that month's sales. $867 is still $867 so find out where the heck the extra money went. Just for the record I've been out of "the business" for several years and enjoy helping customers like yourself get the absolute best deal. The automobile industry as a whole is a trillion dollar industry and customers need all the knowledge they can get. I feel honored to answer questions and definitely and always ask everyone to use the services in Edmunds.com websites which I always refer customers to.

  • mrscooby 03/18/11 2:26 pm PST

    dont forget that the dealer will put $20 pinstripe on the car and charge $450 or they will put $30 floor mats and charge $300. I know im sarcastic but its true!

  • Stever@Edmunds 03/18/11 2:52 pm PST

    Knowledgepower, it's great to have a friend in the biz, even if you're not working at a dealer anymore. Many thanks!

  • idaho_luke 03/18/11 9:52 pm PST

    All good info, thanks guys (Steve and Knowledgepower). I have been working on this deal for about a month, and I have seen a slight change in Edmunds invoice pricing (+$33 on base vehicle), but nothing serious. I visited the dealership about a month ago and declined a proposal on a vehicle equipped as I wanted, except that it also had a $2500 rear seat entertainment system that would be useless to me. They claimed their best price was $500 over invoice, which told me their invoice price was very close to Edmunds' invoice. I negotiated the current deal over the phone, and have seen nothing in writing except for an email stating the invoice price. The whole thing seems a little slimy--we'll see. I sent them a NADA pricing sheet (exact match to Edmunds) and asked them to show me where they differed. No response yet.

  • idaho_luke 03/30/11 1:42 am PST

    I visited the dealer today in Coeur d Alene, Idaho. They gave me a "vehicle inquiry report" that showed retail and dealer prices for every item (base vehicle, destination, and all options and accessories). Every line matched the NADA and Edmunds prices exactly, but there was one additional line item, labelled "TDA" in the dealer column for $749. The dealer told me this was the "national advertising fee". This is the root of the problem. If the advertising fee is truly part of the dealer invoice cost why isn't it listed in the NADA pricing data? It looks like a scam designed to misrepresent the dealer's invoice cost.

  • idaho_luke 03/30/11 2:06 am PST

    I have studied this issue a bit more, and I find that the advertising fee is a standard thing (amounts vary by region) that Toyota charges dealers to adjust for regional cost differences. It is not reported to NADA as part of the dealer invoice price. Basically it means that Edmunds "true market pricing" is below dealer invoice price, and therefore not realistic. I am committed to the current deal, and I will receive my new Sienna in about a month, but it is likely the last Toyota product I will ever buy. This deceitful practice pisses me off so much that when my wife's Lexus needs to be replaced it will be with something other than a lexus.

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